The PS2 Backlog Committee Game Club Presents: Let's Tackle A Series*!!!

[crimson_tide]

Alright izzy, was going to say Shenmue, Risen, Xenosaga or Baldur's Gate...but f*** it, Ecco the Dolphin. Maybe you can make sense of that game enough to make it through the series. Plus, it's probably one of the least taxing in terms of time. Forgive the delay, life and all !

[isthatallyougot]

Alright izzy, was going to say Shenmue, Risen, Xenosaga or Baldur's Gate...but f*** it, Ecco the Dolphin. Maybe you can make sense of that game enough to make it through the series. Plus, it's probably one of the least taxing in terms of time. Forgive the delay, life and all !

Seriously though, thanks for guiding me with your wise(?) judgment. And it was a surprise! I wasn't expecting that to be the pick. I'm excited! And other than Out of the Park Baseball, my plate is open, so I'll start with the original on Genesis (and maybe play the Sega CD version too) as a side dish. And then I'll continue on with the exploration of this series as time marches on. Thanks again!

Edit: And I'll report my findings in order to facilitate the research project.

[argyle]

hello-mr bean.gif (825.72 KiB) Viewed 27346 times

So, yeah, I did say I was going to pick myself, but I also said I'd consider the suggestions. The thing is, my HEART wants to do the VanillaWare games, but my HEAD says I'm too easily distracted. I know there's no set time to complete them, and they don't have to be done back-to-back...still, I'd like to finish them in some kind of reasonable timeframe. On the one hand, there's a lot of variety going that route. Hrm. Then the other problem is there are a couple of games unrelated to all of this that I had lined up - Granblue Fantasy RE:Link and then Xenoblade Chronicles X. So...yeah. At some point, when I'm ready to start, I'll make a decision and post it here.

[isthatallyougot]

Ok crim. I've finally taken a healthy bite of the first Ecco the Dolphin. And I'm intrigued with what I've experienced, if still a bit trepidatious. I really enjoy the presentation. The idea of being a dolphin - such a mysterious and delightful creature - is very appealing. And there are moments where it has been fun just swimming around and breaching the surface - that liberating feeling. But it's also a bit more puzzle-centric than I was expecting or knew going in. And there are some limitations and restrictions on that sense of freedom i was hoping to enjoy in the form of this avatar. But the music is good and the pixel/16-bit graphics are enjoyable. I'm still figuring out this whole thing. But there is an enticing mystery surrounding Ecco's (and dolphins in general maybe) origin which is a cool question the game is posing and is pushing me forward with curiosity. I'm still pretty early on (I think), but I can't render a verdict or anywhere close to one yet. Thanks again for picking this for me. I look forward to completing this and then (eventually) sampling more of this series.

[crimson_tide]

Ok, I have chosen Final Fantasy as my series. I beat FF1 recently and now am at a crossroads because FF2 is not...good. So I had been toying around with the play order of the series. Here's my thoughts:

-Play the games in release order by console: 1st game 1 4 7 10 13 15/ 2nd game 2 5 8 10-2 13-2/ 3rd game 3 6 9 12 13-3

-Alternate old/new: 1 15 2 13 trilogy 3 12 4 10 duo 5 9 6 8 7

-Just do whatever tickles my fancy at the moment

-Stick with going through all of them in order

Thoughts? I mean, does the order really matter with FF? I am just looking for a way to not just do old school all the way to like 7 or something. And 2 is just boring. And the leveling is weird even with the perks turned on. I am 2 hours in but I already feel like this new white mage is just going to bite it or turn on me. He's too good. I like the initial setup but this keyword thing is also bothersome. There's a lot going on here I am just not feeling. If I get 4 or 5 hours in and it's just not clicking, I may move on and do this one in between others until it clicks or I just muscle through it.

As for FF1? It was fine. There were some actual twists that caught me off guard especially the nutty exposition dump right before the final boss. I made it through with a Fighter/ theif/ red mage / monk party. Which was a terrible mistake because while I could bulldoze my way through most fights, I was grossly unprepared for the final boss. I didn't have access to a lot of spells, especially given the loopy magic system which seemed D&D based? That was an interesting idea but proved really annoying at the end. I had to be level 85 to squeak out a victory with this crew. I had picked my team because I didn't like the magic system but had no idea that they really want you to engage with it. Again, I get why people loved it. At the time, I can guarantee I would have balked at the frequency of battles and old school 'you can't progress because you didn't talk to X person' nonsense. But it was a solid start that was enough to get me to commit to this playthrough .

[canedaddy]

I'd probably just do whatever tickles your fancy at the moment. But there's something to be said for going through all of them in order, to get a real clear picture of how things changed between each entry and how the series evolved (or devolved).

[isthatallyougot]

As for FF1? It was fine. There were some actual twists that caught me off guard especially the nutty exposition dump right before the final boss. I made it through with a Fighter/ theif/ red mage / monk party. Which was a terrible mistake because while I could bulldoze my way through most fights, I was grossly unprepared for the final boss. I didn't have access to a lot of spells, especially given the loopy magic system which seemed D&D based? That was an interesting idea but proved really annoying at the end. I had to be level 85 to squeak out a victory with this crew. I had picked my team because I didn't like the magic system but had no idea that they really want you to engage with it. Again, I get why people loved it. At the time, I can guarantee I would have balked at the frequency of battles and old school 'you can't progress because you didn't talk to X person' nonsense. But it was a solid start that was enough to get me to commit to this playthrough .

This was my biggest problem with it when I played it - long after release, to be fair. But, the battles were so frequent and when you couple that with some maze-like navigation, you never have time to feel like you are consistently oriented, and that was really frustrating. I didn't hate it either, but it was a 3/5, and although I can imagine why it kick-started a series, it just wasn't super-enjoyable to me. Adequate, but with too many frustrating elements.

I've finished my opinion on Ecco The Dolphin - the first one, and I'll throw my review up in this thread sooner or later. (and toss it in my 2025 list as well.)

Spoiler, Eh, not so great.

[isthatallyougot]

Well, I went ahead and wrote my review for Ecco The Dolphin since it's part of the Game Club. I'll slot it in within my 2025 yearly rankings if/when that time ever arrives, ha.

There are so many games that I have curiosity about yet remain tantalizing mysteries to me. There's only so much time, and so many potentially interesting titles fall by the wayside. Ecco The Dolphin was a game and series that intrigued me for many years, and thanks to crim, I started a journey into this franchise in 2025.

So what drew me to this - to including this on my list of potential gamer's club series to play? Well, in the first place, I've always found dolphins to be mysterious, almost magical creatures, given their obvious curiosity, intelligence and strange place within the realm of Animalia. I had the opportunity to play with a dolphin along with my child and ex-wife many years ago. And while I probably wouldn't do it again due to stories I've heard about how these majestic creatures are sometimes treated within the confines of tourism and “entertainment”, it was nonetheless a beautiful opportunity that I've always remembered very fondly. So a game focused on these unique beings was always fascinating to me.

The narrative has an interesting set-up. A strange “storm” separates Ecco from his pod in the introduction and he must find/rescue them. Along this journey some interesting questions are posed to tickle your curiosity - things like the question of why do his kind live below the waves if they breathe air. Without spoiling details of this path, I will say that things are far deeper than a simple ocean faring adventure. We're dealing with time travel, interplanetary drama and aliens, oh my! Things really venture down the rabbit hole in some intriguing ways that might not be expected based on playing a game about a dolphin. There's some real surprising depth (no pun intended) surrounding both dolphins in general and Ecco in particular. In concept, I was interested and really enjoyed this aspect.

Musically, things were really nice as well. I know many debate the merits of the Genesis sound ship versus the SNES, but for me it is always been clear and obvious that the Genesis is far superior overall in that regard. I think there is a bias in the larger conversation due to the fact that there were simply more SNES owners overall, as well as the fact that most people don't have an ear for sound quality. (Shut up, my opinion is “correct”. ) Of course that is probably my bias speaking as these things are inevitably subjective. Having said that, The Genesis is the far, FAR superior sound chip. And those who think otherwise are simply dim. (And I love the SNES as well.) But the music is nice along with the general sound design. The soundtrack has a nice, mysterious vibe that suits the adventure.

In terms of gameplay, it was much more of a mixed bag, if I'm being generous. Moving Ecco around and breaching the surface was a fun sensation. The one thing I looked forward to when starting this series was the sensation of being a dolphin...of being free and moving unencumbered in the vastness of the sea. In practice however, this game is very restrictive most of the time. There are hazards and obstacles everywhere that really impinge upon the sensations I was hoping to experience. You'll often find yourself needing to move with great caution and precision, and that is at odds with the sensation I was looking for. To be fair there are moments when you can really let loose and be "playful", and those are wonderful and in some ways are nicely emphasized by their relative rarity. But overall things had a much more confining and claustrophobic feel than I was looking for in a game that was set in the spacious ocean. And it's primarily a puzzle oriented (key and object fetching and moving) type of gameplay, which isn't playing to the setting's strengths. You have to activate certain underwater gems (glyphs) that activate or open others/other paths, and it's often sort of a mystery as to what you've actually done (or subsequently need to do). And Ecco moves too fast and irregularly relative to the precision required in some spots. Sort of an awkward feeling underwater "platformer". Not the most natural and intuitive combination. Generally speaking, things felt much more clunky than I would have liked overall. And there were frustrating sections where you have to go fast but go slow. There was a section pretty early on where you are on tight time constraints but due to the conditions you were facing you must go exceptionally slow in spots. This was very frustrating. I really cannot stand that sort of thing where you are both rushed and restricted simultaneously. Really an off-putting feeling for me. I don't mind difficult/challenging in and of itself, in fact I really get excited by it - that can be really fun if well-designed. But I don't like tedious challenge. This was the latter. The language of progression is often quite hazy here, and it makes playing more of a chore than any sort of fun or mechanically interesting challenge. I admire the ambition and task on offer in principle, but it feels rooted more in the days of Blockbuster game rentals where companies didn't want kids renting and forgetting over a weekend, as they looked to get those purchase dollars rather than being crafted as a genuine challenge without that financial cynicism in play. It was really kind of an anti-rental DRM before such concepts existed in the digital space. Another thing that makes this apparent is how brief the game ultimately is if you know what to do. The added difficulty and tedious progression really emphasize an effort to extend the play-time artificially. Ultimately and practically, Ecco is just a series of mazes with awkward controls, unclear objectives, nightmarish checkpoints, and punishing time constraints, and that does not a fun game make, despite all the positives in terms of presentation. And it's just difficult in an un-fun way overall. There are plenty of things that can damage Ecco in the ocean and that's on top of managing the fact that he has to continually breathe air. Sometimes you find yourself in places where the ocean surface is not available to replenish your air and you have to seek out these pockets of air underneath. And they're not always convenient. And then if you mess up and die, it's back to the beginning of the level. Just annoying. And, full disclosure, I didn't finish it. It was interesting enough that I “finished” the game/experience by watching what I didn't complete on YouTube - something I rarely do. And it was in the spirit of the video game club to see it all, I thought. But the fact that I didn't want to *play* to the end tells the ultimate story about the game on balance for me. 2/5. Not really for me, unfortunately. I won't necessarily dismiss the rest of the series though. There's some variety in this franchise, although I understand the second game, The Tides of Time, is pretty much more of the same, so I may or may not visit that one before Ecco Jr. and the 3D - Defender of the Future. I won't be so harsh as to forego everything else, but presentation aside - which was really very nice overall, the original Ecco just wasn't what I'd call a good game on balance. The potential was there, but it was all undermined by tedium. If it had been the same game in terms of presentation without the annoying gameplay elements, if had even been mostly a “walking sim” sort of narrative-first experience, I would have ranked it higher.

[jfissel]

Ok, I have chosen Final Fantasy as my series. I beat FF1 recently and now am at a crossroads because FF2 is not...good. So I had been toying around with the play order of the series. Here's my thoughts:

-Play the games in release order by console: 1st game 1 4 7 10 13 15/ 2nd game 2 5 8 10-2 13-2/ 3rd game 3 6 9 12 13-3

-Alternate old/new: 1 15 2 13 trilogy 3 12 4 10 duo 5 9 6 8 7

-Just do whatever tickles my fancy at the moment

-Stick with going through all of them in order

Thoughts? I mean, does the order really matter with FF? I am just looking for a way to not just do old school all the way to like 7 or something. And 2 is just boring. And the leveling is weird even with the perks turned on. I am 2 hours in but I already feel like this new white mage is just going to bite it or turn on me. He's too good. I like the initial setup but this keyword thing is also bothersome. There's a lot going on here I am just not feeling. If I get 4 or 5 hours in and it's just not clicking, I may move on and do this one in between others until it clicks or I just muscle through it.

As for FF1? It was fine. There were some actual twists that caught me off guard especially the nutty exposition dump right before the final boss. I made it through with a Fighter/ theif/ red mage / monk party. Which was a terrible mistake because while I could bulldoze my way through most fights, I was grossly unprepared for the final boss. I didn't have access to a lot of spells, especially given the loopy magic system which seemed D&D based? That was an interesting idea but proved really annoying at the end. I had to be level 85 to squeak out a victory with this crew. I had picked my team because I didn't like the magic system but had no idea that they really want you to engage with it. Again, I get why people loved it. At the time, I can guarantee I would have balked at the frequency of battles and old school 'you can't progress because you didn't talk to X person' nonsense. But it was a solid start that was enough to get me to commit to this playthrough .

I love FF1, but then again I played it in like 1990 when it was amazing to me. The encounter frequency was always on the crazy end. You can beat the game with any party, even solo white mage lol - I've probably beat it with around 10 different party combinations. Depending on which version you played, the magic system is different (as in, the OG game had number of times you can use a level of spells vs the MP pool in some versions).

FF2 is considered the black sheep of the series and it's easy to see why. The expanded story was great, but the leveling system was just broken. I played the Origins version on PS1 and you still had to attack your own characters sometimes to get their HP up - maybe this was tweaked in later versions?

[crimson_tide]

Yeah j, I just know I would have bowed out as a youngster. My mom had a very strict one hour of gaming per day rule and Final Fantasy would have worn me down. Faxanadu was my jam just because of the music but I never got anywhere in it. I got REAL good at getting to stage 5 of Blaster Master (never did beat that crab bastard of a boss). I definitely would not be into JRPG's like I am had i tried more before high school (where that hour rule kinda faded away).

So. Final Fantasy 2. They do A LOT in the story. Too much. But I can see why and how it helped them develop more complex stories in the future. I appreciate it for what it is. But 'I speak beaver'? Seriously? How is this not the ONLY thing people talk about with this game. That was HILARIOUS !!! I still don't really like it but it's not doing the old school JRPG things I like so it's wearing on me. About 6 hours in. Something is up with the princess if that lets you know where I am at. I am about to go deal with that. Also, these single serving party member thing is for the birds. I hated when they did it in FF4 and I hate it here. I don't know why they think it's a good mechanic. Basically, I just want them to give me Minwu back with all those white mage spells. That was so dumb they let you start with that cat and then just take him from you, then every time you go back he's just sitting there. So fustrating! It's going to be bottom tier. But I will keep trudging along till I am done or get bored.